Is archaic folklore necessary for modern society? Page not found - literary russia
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Several decades Artistic Director of the Radeyushka Folklore Theater Zinaida Popova dedicated to preserving and reviving the folklore traditions of the Russian North.
“The Soul of Russia award is a merit of the entire choir,” she said. - We are one family in which everyone supports each other. There are women in our theater who came 30 and even 40 years ago. Young people also come to us, whom we are always glad to see. In general, I believe that those who sing folklore and love folk songs will definitely grow up to be good people. "
Where are the traditions?
Anna Nechay, AiF-Arkhangelsk: Your theater performs both in Russia and abroad. Where does the viewer take better?
Zinaida Popova: Of course, in Russia the audience is better received. I remember we performed in Germany, and so the Germans all wanted to hear the translation of the songs, and were surprised that we were singing more and more about sad things. When we perform in Russia, our second half of the concert is dedicated to the fact that we sing songs with the audience. At these moments, people even cry. They lack a folk song. Judge for yourself, on TV it is often difficult to hear a song even in Russian, and not something that is a folk one. I remember someone said: "When the people stop singing, then the nation disappears!" And I completely agree with that. And now people have just begun to sing less. Remember how people used to gather at the table? Be sure to start a song. It was very close and united. Now, where is this tradition? We need to revive the customs of our ancestors, return to our roots. Our Russian song is the soul of the people. Hearing it, you can imagine and understand your whole life.
- On the streets of the city we constantly see posters of the capital's stars. Why are there no posters for "Radeyushka"?
We give big concerts twice a year, go to schools and kindergartens. We are in demand even without advertising. It’s a pity that today there are no large sites for amateur performances in the city. Although, we have already been promised to provide one, it remains to wait.
By the way, we also have one more problem. So, for example, we often sing in "Malye Korely" on holidays. People come up, ask to sing songs, for example, "Victory Day", but we cannot. The Russian Authors' Society allows singing only folklore. With such prohibitions, you can stop singing altogether. And you need to do something about it.
Concerts "Radeyushka" always gather full houses. Photo: From the personal archive of Z. Popova
Fur coats instead of concerts
- Here we all talk about mass sports. And what does it take to bring culture to the masses?
First, you need to communicate with people, be closer to them. For example, it is important to perform not only on the big stage, but also in small halls, where you find yourself face to face with the audience. Previously, we had such concerts at the Marfin House, but now they sell fur coats there. It's a shame. Take the same villages. People just have nothing to do. No work, no cultural life. The clubs have very poor funding, if there are any circles, then they are paid. At the same time, there is a craving for art, for beauty, but it simply is not realized. So it turns out that people are fleeing the villages, and those who stay often just start drinking.
It is said that the most difficult times for culture were the 90s, when many lost viewers due to people relegating culture to the background. Have you felt it yourself?
In fact, at any time, the viewer is drawn to the spectacle. I don’t remember that we performed in front of empty halls. There have always been people at our concerts, including in the 90s. Even in remote villages, we collected halls. And many, for example, the 80s are called stagnant, and I call them "golden". How much we traveled around the country then! Almost the entire Golden Ring has been traveled. Were in Kaliningrad, Syktyvkar, Minsk, etc. And today our choir is loved and well received everywhere.
Dossier:
Zinaida Popova was born in the village of Udim, Kotlassky District, Arkhangelsk Region. She began to take a great interest in singing and dancing since childhood. Arriving in Arkhangelsk, she entered the studio of the Northern Choir. Since 1979 he has been the artistic director of the Radeyushka folklore theater.
Tell me, have you ever sang a lullaby from the repertoire of Zemfira or Philip Kirkorov to your baby? That's right, it never even crossed your mind.
We sing to our children uncomplicated, such simple and such favorite songs that our mothers sang to us, and to them our grandmothers, who were sung from generation to generation, for centuries, and they have come down to us. And this is part of Russian folklore.
What values have become a priority in modern families? First of all, those who, in the opinion of young parents, will help the child survive in a difficult time in a difficult world. We often forget that there can be no harmonious personality without all-round development, and we miss its main component - emotional, moral.
The first years of life, the child lives not by reason, but by emotions, through which his first knowledge of life takes place. And it is very important how and what he hears and sees around him. The first impressions of the child are the cozy tenderness of mother's hands and her voice. A soft, unhurried lullaby, funny little dogs, when the mother plays with the baby, saying rhymes, bothering him, making him laugh and filling him with positive emotions.
Such folklore forms have been created by whole generations, are constantly replenished with new shades, they carry wisdom and great educational value.
Through children's songs, sayings, counting rhymes, the child learns the first moral concepts - empathy, kindness, responsiveness. Speaking about musical folklore, we mean not only oral song forms, it is also a characteristic rhythmic pattern of folk dance. Involving children in folk outdoor games, we teach him not only to navigate in space, move, develop coordination, but also accept the general rules of the game.
For older children who no longer only listen and remember folk songs and jokes, folklore is also of great importance in the development of their creative beginnings. Playing folk music games, children try to bring their own fantasies into the game, endowing their characters with new features or qualities.
Speaking about folk music, I would call it "natural", so harmoniously and consistently it can guide children through the stages of their development, give each of them the knowledge and concepts that they need at this particular age.
Children will be especially interested in folklore holidays that our ancestors celebrated every year, for example, Christmas, because there are so many songs, games and traditions associated with it!
To book a ticket, you must fill out registration form, but you can only get to the show by purchasing a ticket in advance (.
Price:
with advance payment – adult + child ticket - 1100 rubles, additional ticket - 550 rubles.
upon payment on site (subject to availability) – adult + child ticket - 1300 rubles, additional ticket - 650 rubles.
All questions by phone: 8916-2656147.
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Newspaper heading: Sophisticated game, # 2019/12, 03/29/2019
Recently in the library I witnessed a demonstration scene. A middle-aged, intelligent reader turned to the librarian with the question: "Are there freely available books by Alexander Tsypkin?" The librarian replied that all the books were on hand. The reader asked to reserve books. In response, the librarian, apparently knowing the tastes and interests of a long-term reader, asked if she knew about some of the features of the prose of such a popular author. The woman replied that there was sufficient reason for her that Tsypkin's stories from the stage were performed by Konstantin Khabensky himself.Folklore is a kind of display of popular consciousness. And this distinguishes it from other forms of linguistic art, including from literature, in which it is expressed by the lonely personality of the author. can also reflect a purely personal perception of the environment, while folklore unites a collective, public vision. Modern literary criticism is increasingly turning to the phenomenon of mass literature and the peculiarities of its functioning within Russia. The authors of the XXI century have recently shown a tendency towards an active interpretation of the extraction of traditional culture. The growing popularity of mass literature is ensured by the use by writers of the reader's ability to reproduce on a subconscious level the images and plots already known to him and presented in the work. Folklore is very often such a "base".
Folklore motives
Folklore motives sooner or later are used by all writers of both mass and elite literature, the difference lies in their function at this level. In mass literature, folklore is, first of all, a “factor in the formation of national literature,” that is, the guarantor of the correlation of the text with the generally accepted standards of literature, which the reader is ready to consume. Under such circumstances, literary scholars are trying to determine: what is folklore in literature, how folklore motives interact with works of mass literature and what are the features of their influence on the author's text, as well as the transformations that a folklore text undergoes as it is included in the plane of a modern literary work and changes in it. traditional meanings. The researchers set the limits of the entry of the folklore text into the literary text and traced the transformations of the universal folklore archetypes. One of the main tasks will be to find out what folklore is in literature, to explore their mutual influence and connections in the works of mass literature.
Traditional folklore
Authors of mass literature put the main task in writing a work to interest the reader. For this, first of all, they strive for a masterful depiction of intrigue. Zofia Mitosek in the article "The End of Mimesis" writes that "the construction of intrigue is a game of tradition and innovation." And if by the concept of traditions we mean "the transmission from one generation to another of traditional forms of activity and communication, as well as the accompanying customs, rules, ideas, values," then for the reader folklore is a worthy representative of tradition in literature. In modern society, it is necessary to instill in the younger generation the need to study traditional folklore.
School program: literature (grade 5) - genres of folklore
The fifth grade is an important phase in the development of language education for schoolchildren. The appeal to works with the use of folklore materials is due to the need for self-affirmation, the significant sensitivity of fifth grade students to folk art, the correspondence of folklore as an oral word to the active speech of a child who is at the stage of constant development. Such education in secondary school gives the student a lesson in literature.
Folklore genres that should be studied in a modern school:
Ritual creativity
- Calendar-ritual poetry.
- Folk drama.
- Heroic epic.
- Duma.
Ballads and lyric songs
- Ballads.
- Family songs.
- Community songs.
- Shooting and insurgent songs.
- Chastushki.
- Songs of literary origin.
Fairy-tale and non-fairy-tale historical prose
- Folk tales.
- Legends and traditions.
People's paremiography
- Proverbs and sayings.
- Riddles.
- Popular beliefs.
- Fables.
Folklore is a "genetic" element of the perception of the world
The artistic action in the plot of literary works is most often simple and understandable, designed to respond to the everyday consciousness of the reader. Folklore is a "genetic" element of the perception of the world and, as a rule, is put into consciousness with the first songs, fairy tales, riddles from childhood. So, at school, the peculiarities of folklore works give the student a literature lesson (grade 5). Folklore makes the world more understandable, tries to explain the unknown. Therefore, the interaction of the functions of folklore and literature creates a powerful resource for influencing the consciousness of the recipient, in which the text is able to mythologize human consciousness and even cause a transformation of the rational sphere of human thinking. The answer to the question "what is folklore in literature" is determined by the whole direction of inherent creative comprehension and use. In works of folklore, ideas of creativity are often revealed on the verge of intersection with literature. Perhaps this is also influenced by the primordial ritual folklore. Literature (grade 5) in the modern school is increasingly returning to the current topic of spiritual and cultural revival, to the fundamental principle of the life of our people, one of the main carriers of information about which is folklore.
Analysis tradition
Nowadays, a certain tradition of analyzing what folklore is in literature has emerged, according to which equating creativity with standards is considered inappropriate: despite the label “mass character” of novels, they have their own style, creative manner and, most importantly, the theme of the works. They "regenerated" from the depths of the soul the eternal themes, the interest in which has been dormant among the reader since the beginning of a new era. The favorite themes of ancient authors are the village and the city, the historical connection of generations, mystical stories with a love-erotic coloring. On the basis of established historical images, a modern manner of "direct" description of events is built, traditional culture is presented in a modified version. The heroes of the works are characterized by the breadth of comprehension of life and psychological experience, the descriptions of their characters are emphasized by reminiscences to the history and culture of our people, which are most often manifested in the author's digressions and remarks.
Desacralization of folklore
Emphasis is placed on the visualization of pictures, which is carried out with the help of increased dynamics of the presentation of events and the effect of understatement, which stimulates the reader to creative "cooperation". In each novel, the hero exists in a world created by the author himself, with its own geography, history, and mythology. But when reading, the recipient perceives this space as already known, that is, he penetrates into the atmosphere of the work from the first pages. The authors achieve this effect due to the inclusion of various folklore schemes; that is, we are talking about "imitation of myth by non-mythological consciousness", according to which folklore elements appear under their traditional context and acquire a different semantic meaning, but at the same time perform the function of identifying the ancient meanings already known to him by the reader. Thus, in the texts of mass literature, there is a desacralization of traditions and folklore.
The phenomenon of modification of the past and the present
The phenomenon of modification of the past and the present can be traced even in the nature of the construction of almost all works. The texts are replete with proverbs and sayings, which makes it possible to convey the centuries-old experience of the people in a concise, condensed form. The main thing in the works is that they act as elements of the hero's monologues and dialogues - most often they use characters who are carriers of wisdom and morality. Signs and sayings also serve as a hint at the tragic fate of the heroes of that time. They carry a deep meaning, one omen can tell the hero about everything.
Folklore is the harmony of the inner world
So, a certain mythologization and attribution to folklore in works is a natural and as integral part of the created world as the specificity of the peasantry, ethnic flavor and live, real broadcasting. Mass literature is built on "basic models" of the reader's consciousness of a given nation (which are based on "initial intentions"). In the works, such “initial intentions” are precisely the folklore elements. With the help of folk motifs, closeness to nature, harmony of the inner world occurs, and the rest of the functions of folklore fade into the background, a simplification of sacredness occurs.
Only the lazy does not note a certain upsurge in Russia of "patriotic sentiments" and the unprecedented in this connection the activity of the authorities in the field of cultural policy. However, zealous support for patriotically oriented phenomena of culture and art, concern for the national heritage, as usual (and this, too, many have already noticed) contain the danger of all sorts of distortions, dubious distribution of funds and efforts between these same assets (or false assets).
I remember when, back in 2011, President Medvedev opposed evil nationalism with creative work with folk traditions, in particular, with folklore, many immediately doubted whether this would be followed by propaganda of something like the Golden Ring, nesting dolls, ditties and the like, which only averts tasteful people from the national flavor.
About what real Russian folklore is and why a modern citizen of our country might need it, we talked with a well-known specialist in this field - a professional ethnomusicologist, senior lecturer at the Department of Applied Musical Arts of the Russian Academy of Music. Gnesins and the head of a number of live folklore and ethnographic studios Svetlana Vlasova.
Svetlana Yurievna, what do you think is the place of folklore in modern culture? What is Russian traditional music in general, in your opinion?
- Here you need to figure out what you mean by the words "folklore", "traditional music". I can say how we, professional ethnomusicologists, understand this. There is no precise definition of folklore. There is a descriptive explanation that this is some kind of folk wisdom, which consists in songs, dances, folk applied art, sayings, fairy tales, etc. All this, separated by commas, is, as it were, folk wisdom. However, with a closer look, it becomes clear that at the basis of folklore phenomena there is always a certain basic ideological platform (although, of course, it itself does not remain unchanged if we take large historical periods), which concentrates the positive historical and cultural experience of the people. It is also customary to call it "tradition", "traditional culture". Positive means - helping not only to survive, but - to preserve in all life and historical vicissitudes the harmony of a person within himself and outside - with society, with nature. And through this - to contribute to the saving of a kind, people, homeland. Folklore is everything that this mentality, this platform is transmitted to society not through treatises or moral teachings, but through artistic language (verbal, musical, choreographic, pictorial, etc.).
- Is it possible to preserve folklore in the face of the disappearance of traditional culture and, if possible, then why? Will this not be artificial education? In your opinion, is folklore really necessary for a modern person who has been brought up on Western popular culture?
- The fact is that traditional culture, if we take it in a broad sense, is not only a folk rural culture, it is also a noble culture. That is, any positive culture, any positive experience that persists, which for some reason is needed by different generations of people.
It seems to me that the current situation is characterized by the fact that all these things that have come down to us and which every person still has, are now in a very aggressive and dynamic environment. In other words, living in the traditional way was just easier before. But even now, at least while, the traditional experience does not go away yet. Moreover, each person decides for himself - to what extent he personally needs this traditional experience, to what extent he needs to live by what we call, for example, a traditional family. It seems to me that this experience cannot go to the end. Traditional culture may lose some of its meanings, but it is not a fact that these meanings will not return in the next generation or in a generation. The complete destruction of traditional foundations would mean the destruction of the entire society. But then it makes no sense at all to talk about folklore, about the people, about tradition, about the country, etc. That is, we still proceed from the fact that there is no disappearance of traditional culture, but there is a very sharp, dynamic dialogue or some kind of comparison at the level of each individual with what the modern context offers us, which is aggressive towards traditional culture. And each person chooses what is more important and necessary for him.
- Do you not notice that people began to sing less, say?
- Yes. But this does not mean that they have completely atrophied. a wish sing. We are just seeing the opposite picture. Now people constantly come and say: "We really want to sing, how can you join your ensemble?" There are a number of such open studio singing clubs in Moscow. For example, the Petrov Val club, where people come and sing Cossack songs - with great enthusiasm, for themselves. Classes are paid there. But the problem is that not always and not everyone has such an opportunity, the organization of such studios is a very difficult matter. In the situation of modern Moscow life, it is enormously difficult to find, for example, a free place for rehearsals (or at least with a small rent), to provide a teacher's payment. For example, I no longer take people to the ensemble. Not out of my own laziness or on a whim, but simply because the head of the group is responsible for the quality level of each singer, and for a larger number of people (there are now 16 people in our ensemble) I no longer have enough. If there was just a place, I would put, say, three of my students there, and they typed would (you can be sure) a group and would sing with people.
That is, we still see a certain need for the Russian tradition. And here is the question of the media dissemination of this experience: no one knows about many excellent operating folklore studios. The person's need to express himself is present. But a person always undertakes what he knows and, in many respects, what media-fashion is created for. The question is not whether people themselves want to dance and sing, but what opportunities a particular society offers them. If they talk about modern dance parties all the time, have you ever seen them show stories about how the guys organize traditional Russian dance studios? I did not see. But in Moscow there are several such youth studios, many interesting people go there. It's good that now there is an opportunity to convey information via the Internet ...
- Perhaps, few people see folklorists also because they themselves rotate mainly in the inner circle?
- Firstly, the word "folklorists" amuses me. Who do you call folklorists? There are specialists in narrow areas: philologists-folklorists, ethnographers, historians, cultural scientists, specialists in arts and crafts, ethnomusicologists. All these are people of narrow specialization, professionals, who are extremely few in the scale of the whole society. For example, the specialty "ethnomusicology" was officially established more than 20 years ago, but there will not be two hundred students who have undergone such training throughout the country. The rest of the people who are usually called "folklorists" are amateurs, and the degree of their awareness of the true tradition can be very different. It so happens that a person goes on an expedition for the first time - and suddenly he already considers himself an expert, although he has not really understood and has not understood anything yet. Or - city girls sometimes come to traditional dances in completely wild sundresses, which no one has ever worn in the village. But the people around, who are not familiar with the traditions of folk clothing, probably think that these are the “folklorists”. The circle of amateurs is wider than that of professionals, but they do not have the function of “introducing” their hobbies into society, engaging in some kind of intensified propaganda, and it is impossible for them to be obliged to do so.
I began to study genuine folk music twenty-five years ago, and I can somehow assess whether the circle of folklore lovers has increased during this time. Increased and very much. But on the scale that life offers us, when in a month the whole country can suddenly learn something, in such a geometric progression, of course, the circle of folklore lovers does not increase. Moreover, in professional folklore circles, many generally believe that the folklore movement is bad, they say, it is an artificial revival of old things that should not exist. But it seems to me that only time can decide what should be and what should not be. If people with such persistence are drawn to something of their native, genuine, then it is no coincidence, and this is also a touch of our modern life. So far, the folklore movement exists and is not going to die at all.
It seems to me that a certain personal attachment to folk culture, born not ideologically, but as if spontaneously, from the depths of the heart, is the basis of their activities among the majority of "folklorists" - both specialists and amateurs. Moreover, it seems to me that if this sincere attachment disappears, then it makes no sense to talk about the relevance of folklore. What will we then broadcast to others? Some slogans that necessary, they say, to engage in traditional culture? If you yourself are not included in it, all this is not convincing.
- And what is the attachment based on? On what you just like or on some more serious gravitation, say, to the roots, to that very worldview, folk wisdom that you spoke about?
“You know, I’m probably going to upset you. (True, this is my personal observation). In my opinion, on the fact that people simply Like... But this does not mean that there is no craving for the roots. She may be unconscious. Who told you that the word "like" does not include this craving for roots? It's just that a person for himself does not formulate this in concepts. I remember that there was a case with "Romoda" when we were in Latvia, a journalist pestered us for a long time with one question: "Why are you singing songs?" And they are such laconic people: "We like it." "Well, I understand what I like, but why are you singing?" She sought some kind of external motivation. By the way, I notice that people who like to sing without this external motivation, as a rule, are the best singers. This does not mean that motivation does not come later. I tell them: “Well, why are you straining? Formulate to her that it is important for you to continue the traditions of your people. " But they and in fact just like. And you can continue the traditions of the people as you like. You can just raise children, bake delicious pies, build a house without entering any ensemble.
- And if this is connected with the justification, for example, of state support for folklore and folk traditions?
- That's another question. For the state, of course, this needs to be formulated. Moreover, all these things have long been formulated. There is even a pile of documents on this topic. Another question is how it happens in life. For example, children are born. Any mother needs to raise her child anyway. We have not yet lived to see such a situation when she takes him and from infancy just throws him into kindergarten. All the same, mothers sit with children. And besides the fact that his mother fed him, swaddled him, etc., some moment of communication is needed. In traditional culture, there are all sorts of nursery rhymes, finger games, lullabies. And it is impossible to think of a more logical, better form of communication with a child. He does not say anything, but at the sensory level, at the level of developing hearing, vision, he perceives your love, expressed in speech, rhythm, melody, gets used to feeling a loved one in you. Traditional genres fit perfectly into this situation.
Further - the relationship of adolescents. Maybe you saw parties with the same dances? Here the moment of communication between people, acquaintance, is much more effective, it seems to me, than at any disco. Because young people should form a couple in dance, in a round dance - guys and girls choose each other, sometimes couples were even allowed to kiss in round dances. And this couple must be harmonious, they must understand each other, in this there is always a moment of tacit, very correct choice and the search for harmony. In Siberia, where I began to get acquainted with the round dance and evening tradition, it all went off with a bang. This is the case now: thanks to such parties, a lot of young people “fall for folklore”.
And then something else works in adulthood. For the ensemble "Romoda", for example, now is the period of lyric song. They can sing for hours. That is, all these things are psychologically, at the level of age, justified, and a person really needs them, no matter what time he lives.
- Is it possible to determine when the traditional song left the broad mass of the people? Maybe in the 19th century - due to the fact that people began to live more in cities?
- No, actually - in the middle of the XXth. If you talk to folk performers, they will tell you that after the war, most villages still had holidays that gathered a huge number of people. In the late 1940s, in the 1950s, it began to go away.
In general, the process of the loss of folk traditions went on everywhere, and in Europe too. Only we had our own special, as always, history. In connection with the revolution, and even more in connection with the subsequent policy of collectivization, this loss has increased significantly. This is no longer some kind of secret, articles on this matter have been published. In the 30s, there was a turning point in the cultural policy of the state - the centuries-old culture of the peasantry began to be considered "backward", alien to modern reality. Indicative in this sense is the history of the choir to them. Pyatnitsky. Mitrofan Efimovich himself gathered peasants - singing masters into the choir. The first records of the choir to them. Pyatnitsky were quite ethnographic. But in the 30s the composition of the choir was replaced - the place of peasant singers was taken by people trained in "musical notation". The repertoire has changed - there were practically no songs in original chants - only stylizations, adaptations and author's songs. It was the same in other folk groups.
This was a completely deliberate, state-supported policy. For example, not just anywhere, but in the journal "Soviet Ethnography", articles were published with statements that folklore "is an anachronism and the task of folklore studies to be a" gravedigger of folklore "", the goal of studying folklore heritage was formulated as "accelerating the process of inevitable disappearance of folklore", as “a struggle against vestiges in order to help the proletarian masses free themselves from folklore and move to a higher“ literary ”stage” (I am quoting a review by Magid SD of 1934 for the collection “Problems of Soviet Folkloristics”).
That is, everything that was genuine was absolutely unambiguously recognized as retrograde, and at the local level - neither in the clubs that were in the villages, nor by local cultural leaders - the task was not to support traditions, but rather, on the contrary, to introduce urban, and sometimes not always advanced, standards. new "proletarian" culture. And this, of course, had a strong negative impact. But it is also interesting that at the private level, people continued to observe many customs, to play weddings, to sing songs, despite the official negative attitude towards the peasant culture. And if this negativity did not exist, maybe people in cities would know folklore. But he was deliberately covered up, and what was passed off as folk was, rather, a Soviet ersatz - the author's stylization of the people.
In general, this is a very difficult and conflicting topic. And as in any topic of this kind, it will probably be many years before specialists, musicians - adherents of different directions - come to some kind of understanding of each other and a compromise. Most folk choirs still cannot, in my opinion, present creative programs to modern society, where it would be clear that they are able to adequately work with tradition, without breaking and transforming it into something "stylized", in relation to genuine folk culture. distorted. Perhaps that is why the emergence of the folklore movement in the 70s seems logical enough - it made up for the natural craving for people for the present, for the authentic.
- You go on expeditions every year. How things are now with folklore on the ground. Is there something preserved in the outback?
- Differently. Local cultural policy has a very strong influence on the situation. For example, in Vologda, regional and city structures related to the study of folk art are led by very literate people, and there are large traditional holidays in the villages, in each district there are groups where the bearers of the tradition (the elderly, as a rule, people) pass on their experience to children. In Cherepovets, for example, young guys from the Osnova family club and the Matica folklore and ethnographic studio are some of the best dancers in the country. And they realize their knowledge and skills as a continuation of tradition, as continuity. The situation is similar in the south. To a greater extent, of course, among the Cossacks. Belgorod is not bad either. In Siberia, in the Urals, there are good folklore centers working on the materials of their land - in Omsk, Yekaterinburg, Novosibirsk. But, unfortunately, in many areas, work on the preservation and development of traditions, their actualization is either not carried out at all, or is done very formally, for show.
- Folklorists take material from the people, but is there any kind of return, return?
- At least they are trying to do it. The most ancient, rare songs are “dug up” and drawn into the modern cultural context by folklorists. But it should also be borne in mind that "return and bestowal" can be carried out only to the address of the person who is ready and able to accept it. For the perception of many ancient ritual and lingering songs, a sufficiently developed musical intelligence is required. Not always modern people are generally ready to perceive the fact that a Russian song can sound strange, incomprehensible, difficult- both in texts (dialectal) and in music (very peculiar). People have lost the habit of focusing on perception, delving into content, and contemplation. The urban culture of consumption in cities aggressively eats up such intellectual focus. And music - old folk Russian music - requires this depth. Opera or symphonic music, too, not everyone listens and understands - but this does not mean that one pop music should remain.
- Do unexpected finds happen in those places where folklorists have already been more than once? Do grandmothers remember something new? After all, all the villages, probably, have long been traveled by folklorists ...
- No that's not true. First, frontal studies have begun relatively recently. In addition, there are only a few ethnomusicologists, and the country is large. What does frontal examination mean? A group of competent specialists arrives (that is, "no one anyhow") and begins to pass all the villages in a row within the framework of some pre-defined territory. They try to meet everyone who still knows how to sing, dance, and tell here. In this way, a number of regions were surveyed (for example, Pskov, Smolensk, Bryansk, Vologda, Ryazan, and some others). But nevertheless, in many places there was no frontal examination, and although many folklorists traveled on the expedition and collected a lot, still something was missed. Indeed, even with a frontal examination, one cannot say that they have collected everything. A number of all kinds of factors and accidents are important here. That's why new always arises... At least, while it arises, and the meaning of these surveys is, of course, enormous. The expedition material, competently collected and systematized, provides very great opportunities for the reconstruction of the tradition, replenishment of what, it would seem, was irretrievably lost.
- What does adherence to a certain tradition mean in folklore, why is it needed? For example, "Romoda" sings mainly Belgorod songs, someone sings Cossacks, someone Altai ... Why is that? Why can't you sing everything?
- Regional groups usually learn their local tradition. Metropolitan collectives (from Moscow or from St. Petersburg) choose those territories, the music of which is more to their liking. But, in fact, all ensembles of folklore and ethnographic trends usually focus on one or two traditions. The musical culture of any locality has a very powerful original flavor, it has a moment of musical exclusiveness. In principle, in the author's work, everyone strives to be unusual, special, and any tradition contains this originality, which is very valuable in a musical sense. Practice shows that if you sing both, then inevitably the difference in sound between them is erased, you start singing all the same, stereotyped. The most difficult level of mastery lies not even in just singing (many can do this), but in the details, in the nuances of the performance. It is almost impossible to preserve all the details when singing different traditions. It is possible, for example, to sing two traditions in contrast, but it does not fit badly into the human consciousness (even of gifted people) anymore. After all, I would like the singing of modern folklore groups not to lose this pristine power and style true tradition. Therefore, sometimes it is better to limit yourself in the number of songs and territory in order to achieve quality. Moreover, each tradition is self-sufficient. If you want to find something in it, you will definitely find it. Any tradition is built this way, because it included a certain whole of the human world. If you want to dance, you will find dance forms there, if you want to play or sing solo, you will also find forms in it that will satisfy you.
- In this regard, you are probably very critical of such a direction as worldmusic, where all styles and traditions mix freely?
- Above we talked about folklore and ethnographic ensembles. If we reach the level of author's music, then there are, in principle, other tasks: to take a certain melody (melodies) and make our own original composition. It seems to me that the authors and arrangers of such compositions should feel the organic nature of folk music, its natural beauty, and should not destroy, not turn it into dust. We take a melody of, for example, a spiritual verse - we make a balagan out of it. What can I say ... "Everything is permissible for me, but not everything is useful."
Earlier, in general, ethnomusicologists were considered some kind of "blue stockings" that oppose any modern treatments, etc. But this, of course, is not at all the case. It's just that the specialization "ethnomusicology" belongs to the faculties of history and theory of music, and this is one of the strongest and most complex faculties in any music university, and there they study music from the most ancient eras to the modern systems of Messiaen, Stockhausen, etc. Specialists with such a background, in principle, cannot have anything against the author's creativity, but they have a very high qualification of quality, since all the time of their educational and professional activities they deal with world masterpieces. All the great Russian composers said that it is very difficult to process a folk song. You have a certain monolith that has been polished for centuries in the voices of not even hundreds - thousands of unknown folk masters. And to do the processing, you must invade this monolith with your individual consciousness and change it. No matter how much talent God gives you, there will still be some roughness upon contact with this music. Doing something completely different and musically meaningful at the same time is incredibly difficult. That is why, for example, I don’t do treatments, because I believe that I personally won’t succeed brilliantly, but it’s bad - there’s no point.
Therefore, what is being done within the framework of worldmusic is great if it is done cool. Another question is that it is very strange sometimes to hear such an opinion that worldmusic is modern and can exist, and the folklore and ethnographic direction is outdated and irrelevant. It seems to me that the mechanism of "eternal youth" is embedded in the true musical traditions - and this is not at all a utopia. The fact is that history with folklore is always situational. A person in tradition always sings spontaneously. This is when you are not reading from a piece of paper, but trying to convey to the interlocutor some idea that is in your head, you can express this thought in different phrases that correspond to the situation. So is a folk musician singing. He has many variations of the song in his head, and which one he will sing right now is a spontaneous thing. I study a song, I sing, and there comes a moment when it is absolutely mine so much that you don’t think about which melodic version of the known you give out. I listen to the others. This is a fundamental point, because, on the one hand, there is a personal principle, when a person himself chooses exactly how he will sing. On the other hand, if I sing in an ensemble, I must make my choice without disturbing the general ensemble state. That is, there is a quality of combining personal energy with the energy of people who are next to you, so that you do not break the joint harmony. This is such, in fact, a philosophical thing. Because there are people who tend to dominate all the time, and there are people who hide all the time, and here you need to achieve a state where both of them coexist in harmony. And finding this state is spontaneous. Therefore, a modern collective, if it sings tradition very well, it sings all the time in its own way, with variations. Well, how can such a system not be modern?
- Is there a Russian tradition as such? Or is it a conglomerate of different local traditions?
- Despite the diversity of local styles, the internally Russian tradition is fairly uniform, but this is only revealed at the level of musical analysis. If you take a system of musical forms, it will be unified. There is a certain general musical code - in the systems of rhythmic, modal organization. But on the basis of these general principles, each locality developed its own distinctive style - an amazing regional uniqueness while maintaining a single inner core.
- Why do you think the Celtic folklore tradition is so popular in our country and all over the world?
- It seems to me, not only Celtic. And African American is very popular. There is just some ethno-trend going on. And this resonates, it seems to me, for one reason that any ethnic tradition in a broad sense is environmentally friendly. There are things in culture and music that make us intimate with different peoples, even with those with which we have never historically seemed to have lived in the neighborhood. In any tradition there is a natural drive, and if this drive is presented appropriately, it also captures people of different nationalities.
- Maybe the point is that our own tradition is simply little known to the majority. And so, as soon as the Celts appeared, we reached out for this music ...
- The ability to present one's own is another interesting topic. Again, not just the Celts. For example, in Hungary there is a very powerful dance and instrumental tradition, they actually raised it from the situation of provincial peasant culture by PR and professional actions of musicians to the rank of world fame. You have to be able to do this.
But in Russia there is no such thing. It seems to me that this is due to the fact that the performing, practical environment that deals with the "folk theme" in our country due to its professional duties, is all formed around folk choirs. And the choirs don't really need folklore, as we have already said. Since Soviet times, there has been "sharpening" exclusively for concert stage stylized or processed forms. But the musicians there have budgetary funding, which allows them to work more or less calmly. And all groups that want to work with a genuine tradition, often - not only in concert, but also in interactive forms (interaction, inclusion of people in the folklore environment) - very rarely have decent funding (practically do not have). At the same time, this area is not commercial - one cannot quickly and profitably “turn around” here. Therefore, the folklore field is now mainly occupied by enthusiasts - both amateurs and professionals - for the latter, folklore practice becomes, as it were, such a "side" project, in their free time from pedagogical or research work. Naturally, this does not lead to particularly enchanting and quick results.
- Folk singing for the modern listener seems too difficult. Why do you think? Can everyone sing folk songs? Or is it still the lot of enthusiastic people?
- The fact is that, for example, the tradition of Russian singing is multilevel. And at a simple level, you can turn on almost anyone. Except, perhaps, only for people who have no hearing at all. But I have met such units in my life. At a difficult level, everyone can no longer be turned on. But he doesn't need to go there, because, in principle, a person usually himself stops at what he is somehow capable of. Someone sings simple songs, romances, late city songs. For others, this is not enough - give complicated lingering, and with "knees" (as folk performers call musical phrases) abruptly.
E.V. Gippius, a famous Russian folklorist, has very correct observations about the presence of two types of singing groups in the folk environment: conditionally "closed" and "open" ensembles. The "closed" sang difficult and not even everyone in the village was allowed to sing at their place. And at the holidays there were groups of a general, open type, to which all those present could join, and they did not tell anyone that he, they say, was singing in the wrong direction, etc. There were not many “closed” groups per rural area. As a rule, everyone knew them, and this village rumor signified a kind of their status, contained an assessment of the villagers - "there are good singers, masters there." Last year I was told about such a singer on an expedition: “Marya? Yes, she is a general for songs! " Thus, this closed group also interacted with society, but in a slightly different way - not letting everyone into their song circle, but keeping the high bar of the local song tradition.
The folklore movement, without thinking specifically about it, repeated these principles in the 70s - in this new urban environment there are ensembles that tend to the “closed” type, oriented towards mastery, and club studios, groups that are open to the arrival of everyone. ...
- Do you know of cases when a passion for folklore brought people back to the traditional way of life?
- There were such experiments and even more than once, although I cannot say that they all ended successfully. Sometimes a person came to the village, to the village and did not settle down there. But, I think that this is not important here. The fact is that a person, when he begins to study folklore, in any case already has some traditional meanings - his family gave him something, he received some kind of upbringing from his grandmother, something just at the genetic level. And these traditional meanings, when practicing folklore, are strengthened in a person, their importance and relevance is confirmed for him.
- In the ensemble "Romoda" by and large gathers people who like to sing for themselves. Why then do you perform, go to festivals? Do you feel some kind of mission of yours in popularizing folk culture?
- In general, we are a rather closed collective, if, according to E.V. Look at Gippius. But in our time, such collectives absolutely need to interact with society. And since the modern urban environment practically does not know folk traditions at all, the initiative, I think, should come from us. If such collectives break off contacts with society, this already strongly resembles a kind of sectarianism. It turns out that we do something for ourselves with some very beautiful truths, and everyone else is not our people. Such a position inevitably meets resistance in any person: “How are they not ours ?! These are our compatriots - relatives, friends, housemates, etc. " Therefore, the ensemble "Romoda" conducts some kind of activity "among the masses". Without declaring particularly loudly any mission, we try to somehow change the situation around us by our public activities. At the performances, we try to build the program in a variety of ways and not overload people with complicated songs. Although I believe that they must be sung. In the folklore environment, the question of whether it is necessary to sing these long "boring" songs, which are poorly perceived by many unprepared people, has been debated for a long time. But I think it's impossible not to sing them. Because in the audience there are still people who are musically intellectual who react to these songs. Yes, there may be five to ten percent of them, but all people should know that this level was in the culture. If we remove complex, deep songs and leave only "trawl-wali", then the attitude to traditional culture will be like to bears and balalaikas, and we ourselves in this way demean it. It seems to me that this is such a soft popularization, without flags and slogans. We simply believe that there should be some kind of channel of interaction between what we can do, what we have, and other people who have not heard anything and do not know about the folk tradition.